Do you mind educating me as to why we want European devolution and independence? Isn't a united world what we should aim for? I'm seriously curious and looking to learn, not start a fight.
Also, if we give the Native Americans back their land, that's basically dismantling the USA as a whole. Is that the goal? It's all their land. Wouldn't it be more productive to focus on making the USA an inclusive country where they feel welcome?
Your response regarding fragmenting countries in the EU gives me a lot to think about and I appreciate it. I didn't think about it that way. I think a United States of Earth would be a hell hole if it was a United States of America -> United States of Earth. Unless there's a communist foundation to build on, there's no way it could end well.
Regarding dismantling the USA. I agree a reformist approach will only result in a Green New Deal best case scenario that will lead to a follow up of reaction like you mentioned. The main thought I failed to convey was the forced mass migration of every non-native human in the USA back to whatever country(s) they are from. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me and I think it would make more sense to to keep the people here and provide reparations and actually follow the treaties we signed with the Native Americans. While this is their home, this is my home for better or for worse. I'm open to relocating within the borders of the USA if that's needed, but I don't identify with either Scandinavia, Germany, France, Ireland, Poland, Russia, Netherlands/Belgium, and the myriad of other ancestry 23 & Me found in me. Again, it's very interesting to think about the implications of the USA being forced to honor their treaties signed with the Native Americans.
I mean, yeah, until Indians literally just get colonized again due to now being the proud owners of a developed first-world country with neither the numbers, allegiances, or military expertise to defend it.
Like, okay. The US collapses, or gives all of it's land back to Indians and every descendant of the colonists gets in a boat and goes back to whichever country their ancestors originated from (ignoring the massive global crisis that would result from the displacement of three hundred million people, many of which are completely stateless now). They're left with a few million people scattered across a massive tract of developed land. The only thing that would stop them from immediately getting taken over by another imperialist country is if they found the nukes and their launch codes extremely quickly.
A 'united world' at the moment would simply mean strengthening the global status quo, which is a neoliberal one. The largest multi-national organizations like the European Union are all neoliberal in nature. Therefore, devolution is in our interest to weaken those organizations' power.
mate, the US genocided them and took everything they once had and has subjugated them for centuries. you're not internalizing that idea if you think it's possible for anyone to feel welcome in a society that has done that to their people again and again. do you know how many times we promised that this last time was the last and that we won't do it again, that we'll be peaceable from now on? this is so deeply chauvinistic and I encourage you to think hard about why you feel what you do.
You can't practically expect tens of millions of people to give up their homes for the sake of someone else out of, what, the goodness of their heart? You may as well try to revive Lenin instead with how likely that is to happen.
This ^^ huge portions of land are owned by the current federal US government that could be easily ceeded. Lands that are owned by first nations can still have white people in them, as citizens of those nations, we aren't building ethnostates. It's also not like first people will demand the destruction of existing infrastructure, what's more, because of climate change we will need to have mass movement / transplantation of people away from the coasts and the equator. We can use this opportunity to rip out the roots of settler kkklonialism. People are gonna have to move anyways.
You are reading more into what I said than what I meant. I am not talking about a reformist approach, I was really only thinking about the idea of forcing hundreds of millions in the USA to pack up their bags and leave the Americas. I didn't articulate that well and that's my bad. When I talk about a country I think in terms of the people instead of the government which is a bad habit as the will of the people living within a government isn't reflective of how the government operates. I don't think it would be productive to force hundreds of millions of non-natives to pack their bags and leave. I think the better solution is for us to work together and to honor their wishes.
Do you mind educating me as to why we want European devolution and independence? Isn't a united world what we should aim for? I'm seriously curious and looking to learn, not start a fight. Also, if we give the Native Americans back their land, that's basically dismantling the USA as a whole. Is that the goal? It's all their land. Wouldn't it be more productive to focus on making the USA an inclusive country where they feel welcome?
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I really appreciate your response.
Your response regarding fragmenting countries in the EU gives me a lot to think about and I appreciate it. I didn't think about it that way. I think a United States of Earth would be a hell hole if it was a United States of America -> United States of Earth. Unless there's a communist foundation to build on, there's no way it could end well.
Regarding dismantling the USA. I agree a reformist approach will only result in a Green New Deal best case scenario that will lead to a follow up of reaction like you mentioned. The main thought I failed to convey was the forced mass migration of every non-native human in the USA back to whatever country(s) they are from. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me and I think it would make more sense to to keep the people here and provide reparations and actually follow the treaties we signed with the Native Americans. While this is their home, this is my home for better or for worse. I'm open to relocating within the borders of the USA if that's needed, but I don't identify with either Scandinavia, Germany, France, Ireland, Poland, Russia, Netherlands/Belgium, and the myriad of other ancestry 23 & Me found in me. Again, it's very interesting to think about the implications of the USA being forced to honor their treaties signed with the Native Americans.
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I like your argument in favor of heterogeneity
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME
I mean, yeah, until Indians literally just get colonized again due to now being the proud owners of a developed first-world country with neither the numbers, allegiances, or military expertise to defend it.
That's a real galaxy brain take you got there, comrade
Am I wrong?
Like, okay. The US collapses, or gives all of it's land back to Indians and every descendant of the colonists gets in a boat and goes back to whichever country their ancestors originated from (ignoring the massive global crisis that would result from the displacement of three hundred million people, many of which are completely stateless now). They're left with a few million people scattered across a massive tract of developed land. The only thing that would stop them from immediately getting taken over by another imperialist country is if they found the nukes and their launch codes extremely quickly.
Absolutely you are.
A 'united world' at the moment would simply mean strengthening the global status quo, which is a neoliberal one. The largest multi-national organizations like the European Union are all neoliberal in nature. Therefore, devolution is in our interest to weaken those organizations' power.
mate, the US genocided them and took everything they once had and has subjugated them for centuries. you're not internalizing that idea if you think it's possible for anyone to feel welcome in a society that has done that to their people again and again. do you know how many times we promised that this last time was the last and that we won't do it again, that we'll be peaceable from now on? this is so deeply chauvinistic and I encourage you to think hard about why you feel what you do.
You can't practically expect tens of millions of people to give up their homes for the sake of someone else out of, what, the goodness of their heart? You may as well try to revive Lenin instead with how likely that is to happen.
I dont think its about taking individual persons’ houses, its about giving sovereignty back to the people to whom it rightfully belongs
But how does that work in practice? Like, what material changes will actually be made?
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This ^^ huge portions of land are owned by the current federal US government that could be easily ceeded. Lands that are owned by first nations can still have white people in them, as citizens of those nations, we aren't building ethnostates. It's also not like first people will demand the destruction of existing infrastructure, what's more, because of climate change we will need to have mass movement / transplantation of people away from the coasts and the equator. We can use this opportunity to rip out the roots of settler kkklonialism. People are gonna have to move anyways.
Not gonna lie I'm also kind of unclear on this and would really appreciate an explanation
I am understanding now that this is not what was being suggested and it makes me feel like a big dumb dumb. Thanks for the understanding.
You are reading more into what I said than what I meant. I am not talking about a reformist approach, I was really only thinking about the idea of forcing hundreds of millions in the USA to pack up their bags and leave the Americas. I didn't articulate that well and that's my bad. When I talk about a country I think in terms of the people instead of the government which is a bad habit as the will of the people living within a government isn't reflective of how the government operates. I don't think it would be productive to force hundreds of millions of non-natives to pack their bags and leave. I think the better solution is for us to work together and to honor their wishes.